Topic: Greece is Burning!

[|BUG| Shamu]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20423441/

Hope Seven is no where near this stuff.......sounds like California.

[|BUG| Seven]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20423441/

Hope Seven is no where near this stuff.......sounds like California.

I was planning to go on holidays in the area of disaster but it was canceled.
I can't be more happier for canceled vacations!
I would have been there if I hadnt canceled. My friend with whom we were supposed to be there is trapped in the area with her family.
I havent talked to her since yesterday evening. She told me she was in a safe place with her hubby and son but the situation was tragic and was worrying for her whole village and her relatives. Hopefully she is out of cellphone battery cause I am still worrying about her and she doesnt answer my calls... 

So far the death toll is 41 ppl. 23 of them were burnt all together while trying to escape the fire...MANY chidlren among them 
Many still missing...I am afraid this is not the final toll..

Its a big tragedy, not only for the dozins of death ppl but also for the beautiful forests and huge areas burnt.

Goverments responsibility is huge. Mediterranean countries always had fire problems every summer. However our goverment cared more about the upcoming elections and how to get re-elected than to protect its people. Unorganised, corrupted and incompetent hypocrits politicians.
They should be the ones  burnt in hell instead...

S

[|BUG| Shamu]

What is going on here Seven

Arsonists?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6965337.stm

I heard, rumor only, that the arsonists may be hired by developers who want to be able to build on land currently protected by preservationists. Burn it out and they may be allowed to build on it.

Whatever the cause Greece has certainly got itself some problems.

Certainly gives me a different impression of Greece. Without ever having really looking at Greece I would have thought as old as it is all the trees would have been long gone. Did not know there was so much there to burn the fires would be a problem.

Hope you get it under control.........and no damn Liberal sentiments for the arsonists if they are found 

[|BUG| Seven]

What is going on here Seven

Arsonists?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6965337.stm

I heard, rumor only, that the arsonists may be hired by developers who want to be able to build on land currently protected by preservationists. Burn it out and they may be allowed to build on it.

Whatever the cause Greece has certainly got itself some problems.

Certainly gives me a different impression of Greece. Without ever having really looking at Greece I would have thought as old as it is all the trees would have been long gone. Did not know there was so much there to burn the fires would be a problem.

Hope you get it under control.........and no damn Liberal sentiments for the arsonists if they are found 

                    

my country is destroyed and I weep
I was sobing yesterday in front of tv and believe me I dont cry easily..

its pure incompetence.. we are a third world country.
all of southern Greece has gone 20years back..everything is burnt..devastated..how this people will survive?
THEY EVEN almost burn the ancient Olympia..the place the first Olympic games took place....a monument with priceless value..protected by Unesco...

The arsenist story is dust in the eyes of the ppl. The Goverment used that as propaganda..black propaganda. They are so incompetent to put off the fires they created the threat of some invisible Fire Terrorists to make ppl fear and stop thinking about their incapacity. Greeks didnt bite so the goverment started to withdraw this scenario...

Mediteranean forests are like California (I think). When we have very hot summers like this year, the forests are very easy to catch fire.
The thing is for years now we dont take precautions. We dont take any forest protection. there are no anti-fire zones, no special forest-fire men. People don't clean their roads/backyards/forests from the dry weeds  that catche fire easily.
There is NO education. All this ppl in the villages that got burn had NO evacuation plan. I repeat.. there is no evacuation plan for villages that are near or inside forests.
People died in their cars trying to escape the fire going the wrong way....

Our FIREdepartment force is torn apart. We had the best prepared fire deparment during 2003-2004 (for the Olympics) but after that the new Goverment frakked the force and appointed in high places officers that belong to the party of the goverment and that disorganised the force completely. The truth is people fight the fires almost alone, firemen are not capable to help them.

There are arsenists, always were, mostly cause they have no education start fires by accidents (or maybe they dont have common sense, starting a bbq fire in the forest during summer is not the most clever thing to do..). Also there are the ones that start the fire for land reasons...to built afterwards or to claim a piece of land from their neighbours.

In any case the problem is not what started the fires..is that we have done NOTHING to stop it in time..

oh well sorry I guess you dont care but I REALLY needed to vent out. I also think its time to migrate. So Woundy, prepare your guestroom dear


S.

p.s.
oh and Shamu, I have no liberal feelings for my goverment right now.. I would love to see them all at Woundy's death row wing. oh hell I would push the button myself. No mercy for traitors who destroy a country from within.

[|BUG| Seven]

these are the fires as seen from a satelite yesterday
(click on the pic for larger size).

S.

[|BUG| Shamu]

Most unfortunate when nature and incompetence join forces against the people.

While we also have fires I would say we are much better prepared to deal with them and actually recognize them as a threat and even do preventative maintenance.

Our forest service will even do "controlled" burns to rid areas of excessive undergrowth and dead wood. Sometimes even that can get out of control.

Naturists argue both for and against controlled burning but at least the issue is discussed and addressed. But that is still better than ignorance.

Back in 1949, the Man Gulch Fire brought national attention to forest fire fighting. Even had a movie made about it.

http://www.foresthistory.org/Publications/FHT/FHTSpring1999/13thfire.html

Sometimes it takes a disaster to open peoples eye's, most unfortunate.

[|BUG| Shamu]

It appears several "arsonists" have been arrested for many of the fires started in Greece.

http://veimages.gsfc.nasa.gov/690/S2000196111859.jpg

Is there any clue as to if these arsonists were acting on their own sick free will or if they were "employed" by others to start the fires

By "employed" I mean hired by developers, recruited by terrorists or acting on behalf of a radical group.

If terrorists, as the government has speculated, what are terrorists after targeting Greece?

I suspect the terrorist angle may just be used as a government tool to help prosecute the arsonist. If they can say the arsonist is a "terrorist" the prosecution can have more flexibility in assigning a punishment.

If thats the case I am all for calling the arsonist a terrorist, they are terrorizing the Greek nation regardless of their personal motive for starting the fires.

Burn the buggers at the stake

[|BUG| Seven]

It appears several "arsonists" have been arrested for many of the fires started in Greece.

http://veimages.gsfc.nasa.gov/690/S2000196111859.jpg

Is there any clue as to if these arsonists were acting on their own sick free will or if they were "employed" by others to start the fires

By "employed" I mean hired by developers, recruited by terrorists or acting on behalf of a radical group.

If terrorists, as the government has speculated, what are terrorists after targeting Greece?

I suspect the terrorist angle may just be used as a government tool to help prosecute the arsonist. If they can say the arsonist is a "terrorist" the prosecution can have more flexibility in assigning a punishment.

If thats the case I am all for calling the arsonist a terrorist, they are terrorizing the Greek nation regardless of their personal motive for starting the fires.

Burn the buggers at the stake

There are no terrorists. Do you read my posts?
I already wrote, Greek Goverment uses the "terrorists suspicion" (without any clues they guess it) to mislead people.

Its the most classical trick in Goverments book: create a powerfull enemy against the state to distract ppl from the real causes. Our goverment is trying to use fear to control people's anger. Its not working in Greece. However this stupid act has started to worry other countries about terrorism existing in Greece.
The idiots to cover their mistakes and incompetence  brought back terrorism in Greece when it doesnt exist (not in that scale anyway).

We are living the dryest and hottest year ever. Our Forests are extremely vulnerable.

There are arsonists here, they have been the last 30 years, usually "working" for the interests of land developers. You see there is NO land registry here, so its easy to claim land from burnt forest. So who is really to blame here? The Land Developer Gangsters? Or the Goverments who for 30years DONT MAKE A FRAKKING LAND REGISTRY??

As for the Arsonists that have been arrested so far are like:
*** a 75years old grandma who was cooking in her frontyard who started a fire by accident
*** 2 teams of contractors who were solding in forest houses  and started fire by accident
*** a 65 years old farmer who was burning dry weeds in his field and started a fire by accident
*** 2 11years old kids who were playing with matches in the forest
*** a couple of Czechs who might be the only really suspicious suspects.

Do the abobe constitute an organized terrorist group for you?
If yes..that would finally explain why you invaded Iraq! 

S.

[|BUG| Shamu]

I suspect the terrorist angle may just be used as a government tool to help prosecute the arsonist. If they can say the arsonist is a "terrorist" the prosecution can have more flexibility in assigning a punishment.

If thats the case I am all for calling the arsonist a terrorist, they are terrorizing the Greek nation regardless of their personal motive for starting the fires.

Also read the above from my comments. Calling them terrorists may only be to inflict a harsher punishment in a court of law.

Meaning...... an arsonist is treated under one set of laws, a terrorists under a different set of laws which give the government better tools for prosecutuion.

If terrorists, as the government has speculated, what are terrorists after targeting Greece?

Also note the above was meant as a rhetorical question essentially showing that I have no idea why there would be terrorist targeting Greece. Call it sacasm if you wish but I have no idea why terrorists
would want to burn Greece. In essence saying I do not believe the terrorist issue. Perhaps I should have put a  after the comment.

Also, if I use you and I as examples, look at our different perceptions of the issue formed by the world media.

You say it's all government incompetance which does get some media play, but not as much as the terrorist angle has received in the world media.

Perhaps the American citizens view on Iraq is very similar. The war is viewed unfavorably by most Americans:

http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm

But you, in the past, seem to think we, as citizens, do nothing about it or do not even care. Quite the opposite is true.

Bottom line is it is difficult for any average citizen to do anything these things until terms of office expire and new politicians are elected. Then you cross your fingers and hope for the best.

BTW....... you have it easy, just get rid of those terrrorists and your forrests will be lush and green

[|BUG| Seven]

oops!
I admit I didnt read your post carefully so I apologize. 
We have  big problems with the phone lines in my office area and we are without DSL I had to load the site using modem and I was frustrated lol!

imho there are 2 kind of arsonists that had burned lots of forest the last 30 years:
1) the common/average greek citizens that nobody had trained on how to behave inside a forest which is the majority of the greek people and the biggest danger, ignorance is no bliss in this topic.
2) the common criminals that the gangsters-land-developers hire to start fires so they can claim the land after.

Who to punish?
I vote for the greek state and officials that are corrupted or indifferent during  all this years. I would gladly excecute them than the criminals.

It doesnt matter if we have a law and call the arsonists terrorists and punish them. Cause the state and the goverment don't really care to enforce the law and are the no1 responsible for this mess.

As I wrote above, there is also one more problem: calling the arsonists terrorists is a huge mistake and screws the international perception about Greece and terrorism. And this also have big consequence in our basic industry which is  tourism.
Of course when you have the worst distruction after WWII and you imply this is a result of terrorism that attracts the attention of the rest of the world.
But greek goverment doesnt do this to warn the world is doing it to hide its incompetence.

Also calling terrorists someone who is not has the affect of fear among the society which could be good for the goverment but not for the people.

the problem is that according to the latest polls these idiots will get elected again.
I need to migrate!!!!! 

S.

[|BUG| Shamu]

Who to punish?
I vote for the greek state and officials that are corrupted or indifferent during  all this years. I would gladly excecute them than the criminals. S.

Now you're talking, spoken like a true conservative

BTW........if you are looking to migrate Texas has possibilities for you. Home of the Bush family and actually implements the death penalty

A nice conservative state

[|BUG| Desert Eagle]

With the birthplace of Democracy burning, it is only a matter of time before the world turely comes to end.  Hope you and your family and friends are okay seven.