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Author Topic: President Bush  (Read 4471 times)

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Offline |BUG| Shamu

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President Bush
« on: July 04, 2007, 02:33:18 PM »
Enough! >:(

I voted for George W and George H. W but I have had enough!

Commuting the sentence of Libby was the last straw......I also suppose a pardon for Libby will come in the future.

I supported the invasion of Iraq and WMD was not even the driving reason. I just felt it was justified.

It is now time to get our troops out or, at the very least, set a deadline for their removal. Iraq has become nothing more than a police action, it is no longer a war.

Not sure who I will vote for next but I will be glad to see Bush out of office. My regret is the harm he is causing to the conservative position.

I hope the Conservatives can survive his remaining term.

Offline |BUG| Drago

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Re: President Bush
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2007, 02:51:37 AM »
Heck with the So called Conservatives....who blew our entire budget on a unjust war. I am fine with nuking the afghans, however Iraq is just dumb. the pricks gave the rest of our treasury straight to oil companies and corporate interests.

the truly terrifying part is that pres shit for brains has set the country up to swing massively to the left in this coming election.

as an intelligent citizen, this whole situation has gotta scare the hell out of you.
as an American, I would have preferred to save our Constitution, instead of shredding it in the interests of granting more power to incredibly inept government officials.

God save us all. cause our system is screwed.

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Offline |BUG| Seven

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Re: President Bush
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2007, 06:26:50 AM »
Commuting the sentence of Libby .

ok anyone care to inform  me in a nutshell what is that about? Don't give me a confusing link please just an explanation for dummies here, thank you!  ;D

So Shamu, Have you had news from OM recently? is he still among the living? I kind of worry cause it seems like if his spirit has possesed your body nowdays  ;D

oh and Shamu...you are one of the conservatives I never had a problem arguing with but...I *have* to say it:  I TOLD YOU SO!! hee hee hee hee  ;D


S.

I've never been clever, because need it never.

Offline |BUG| Shamu

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Re: President Bush
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2007, 12:15:41 PM »
Commuting a sentence is to reduce the sentence given by the court. In Libby's case from 2 1/2 years to no jail time. At this point he is still guilty of the crime but will not go to jail as the court had decreed. Only the punishment sentence is changed by commuting.

Our President can commute cases from Federal Courts which involve a Federal crime.

State Governors have certain leeways in State Courts but am not quite sure of what they are.

A Pardon, which the President can also issue, is a "forgiveness of the crime".

Being commuted reduces the sentence, a pardon forgives you.

Historically all presidents have issued Pardons, especially at the end of their term. Many people apply for Presidential Pardon before a President leaves office. Example: President Ford pardoned President Nixon. Clinton also pardoned some old political friends.

To me it is a disgraceful use of Presidential power.

I expect before Bush leaves office he will pardon Libby, forgiving him of the crime he committed.

Disgusting when politicians overrule our court system.

Offline |BUG| Cobra_9

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Re: President Bush
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2007, 06:20:34 PM »
Presidential pardons is one thing, but I think a President should not be able to pardon ANYONE when he is in his last year of office...which is when you can expect Libby to be pardoned. He should have the "balls" to do it now and face the anger of the masses. If Libby wants to be pardoned he should have to wait for the next President and cross his fingers in hope of a pardon. But waiting until your term is near ended to grant a pardon is being a coward.  >:(

Offline |BUG| Shamu

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Re: President Bush
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2007, 06:45:01 PM »
Personally I do not like any individually elected executives being permitted to issue pardons or to commute sentences.

It reeks of political gamesmanship.

No one individual should be allowed to overule a courts decision, very often a decision made by a jury.

I am not ruling out pardons, I just do not agree with the authority to issue a pardon being in the hands of one elected individual.

Perhaps a bi-partisan review board where extenuating circumstances could be considered and a percentage vote could determine whether or not to commute or pardon an individual deemed guilty by our courts.

"Extenuating circumstances" would certainly take into consideration our national security and risk to under cover operatives.

Offline |BUG| Seven

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Re: President Bush
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2007, 07:52:07 PM »
who the hell is libby?  ;D

S.

I've never been clever, because need it never.

Offline |BUG| Shamu

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Re: President Bush
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2007, 10:47:27 PM »
who the hell is libby?  ;D

S.

Want a link? ;) ;D

Offline |BUG| Seven

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Re: President Bush
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2007, 06:23:41 AM »
I found one here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Libby.

So this guy was in in the white house stuff of the president, he was found guilty of a crime but his president pardoned him...
as we say here "one hand washes the other hand and both are washing the face".

The same president who when was a governor "fried" a quite a few death row guys  who apparently would be still alive today if they were members of Bush's staff. Yeah, playing  it unbiased and unprejudiced defender of justice only for people you don't know and dont care about is a charisma of the great men (NOOOOOOOOT!!!).

wow.. this is embarassing...

This guy is a disgrace. And he got elected Twice. ::)
He screwed the middle east, he screwed Iraq, screwed the environment, he seems not to have even the basic moral values, did he at least do anything good for the US society?

S.

p.s. and this is a good example that politicians who are in favor of death row are not always really into justice but are in favor of excecutions  manipulating this way the need of the society to feel safer. How much guiltier is a sociopath killer than a public figure who is supposed to be working for the goverment and the good of the nation but he is corrupted instead and screws both the nation and the laws ?
Who is the worse really? the sociopath scams Woundy has to deal with in daily basis or the corrupted leaders of our system who are "killing" us  a little  every single day and never pay for their crimes?
IMHO public servants found guilty of crimes and/or of power/authority abuse they should be locked for the remaining of their natural lives. No pardon for them.

« Last Edit: July 06, 2007, 06:27:31 AM by |BUG| Seven »

I've never been clever, because need it never.

Offline |BUG| Shamu

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Re: President Bush
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2007, 12:58:29 PM »
Well Seven first off he did not pardon him, he commuted the sentence. However, I expect before his term ends he will pardon him.

You missed commenting on how he came up with a cashiers check for $250,000.00 to pay his fine.....I'll bet it was not his money.

I, like you, feel penalties should be much harsher for elected officials or or government employees hired to serve the public or placed in a position of public trust. Public or political officials need to be trusted, unfortunately that is not always the case here and I expect it is the same in most countries.

Let's also understand that I still think Kerry would have been worse as a President. It's very easy for us to criticize elected officials currently in power. But that does not say the ones who did not get elected wouldn't have been worse.

You ask "Did he at least do any good for American society?" Well if you invested in the stock markets a lot of good has been done. I also think the invasion of Iraq was good, I just don't like how it's being closed out. Same with Afghanistan.

I don't really want to wander off into capital punishment which you seem to oppose but I certainly do wish capital punishment was administered much faster and much more often than it currently is. 5 Stars for Bush on that one. :clap:

But I am glad to see you are stirred up and writing with that old Liberal passion  ;) ;D

Offline |BUG| Seven

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Re: President Bush
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2007, 11:19:43 AM »
you welcome  ;D

I really dunno if Kerry would be worse or not. And I bet you don't either. Cause we simply can't just assume or rely on "ifs". What about Gore? he seems more decent.

Anyway the image of Bush in eyes of the rest of the world must be that he is the WORSE  and not gifted american president, EVER.
I dunno if this is a creation of the media or not, but Bush looks like a complete idiot, unsufficient, incompetent who won the presidency twice only cause certain lobbies and interests supported him, he is not the one that really has the power he is just a puppet.

Harsh description eh? Of course we don't live in US we only get our impressions from mostly his actions corcerning his foreign politics. So we could be mistaken (but I doubt lol!).

I don't think in the 20th century an american presidents has been so bad opinioned and won no respect from the rest of the world like Bush has.
You think this is because of the general antiamericanism out there? or its the truth?
I'll give you the Clinton example. He got rediculed himself with the Monica story, and he also started the Kossovo War a fact that made him really unpopular among the Europeans at least. However no one thinks of him as we do for Bush junior.

So I am really interested to know what opinion our american friends in this forum have about Bush Junior. Do you think he deserves all this? What's his legacy? Can he do worse in the rest of his predisency? I would ask you please not to let your republican or democratic feelings to blur your judgement.

Thank you.
S.

I've never been clever, because need it never.

Offline |BUG| Shamu

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Re: President Bush
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2007, 05:57:52 PM »
I doubt very much that he will have a proud legacy, as I said I hope he leaves office before damaging the conservative position more than he already has.

Politically he is already losing support in his own party. Do not think for one moment Bush is not criticized here as much as abroad. I suspect the criticisms you see are very mild when compared to what is said in this country.

However, keep in mind a President has certain powers and a Democracy changes very slowly. It's not like as he loses popularity there can be a "no confidence" vote as there can be in some countries. Israel comes to mind if I am not mistaken.

Our Presidents have a term of office to fill and simply not liking what he has done or said does not warrant impeachment.

To be impeached he usually has to break the law, not just lose popularity. And to our knowledge Bush has done noting to break our laws. All he has done, as far as we know, has been perfectly legal. That does not mean anyone has to like it.

Popularity or public opinion does not mean crap in changing the offices of our elected representatives, such as the President, during their term of office. That only counts at election time.

So he is there until his term of office runs out and a new president is elected. Then the voting public can express their displeasure through their vote.

Since Bush cannot run again, 2 term limit, he is of little concern to me. My concern is the damage he may cause to a political philosophy that I support. As you well know the less power the Liberals have the better I like it.

And like you said, Kerry is a big if, but so is everyone else that does not win. It's always easy to snipe at the one in control, he makes an easy target for criticism and second guessing.

Kerry is safe because he is doing nothing......not even a thought for the next election. That in itself says something about his possible capabilities.

Offline |BUG| K-Man

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Re: President Bush
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2007, 08:22:48 PM »
I've been disappointed in a) lack of restraint in spending, and b) shifting several US policies to ones that I'm not entirely comfortable with (e.g. preemptive force).

Will there ever be a perfect president? No. Will we ever know what would have happened had another individual had been elected president? No. Do I get the warm fuzzy's about Al Gore, John Kerry, or John Mccain? No. It's sad to say, but I shudder to think where we would be today had Al Gore been elected in 2000. I think we would be at a very different place, but far worse.

One thing is certain, if the Democratic party doesn't win the presidency in 2008, it will be their own fault (barring any galvanizing, charismatic Republican candidate).

My opinion is that the first thing to disqualify an individual for office is the desire to run for office.

Offline |BUG| Shamu

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Re: President Bush
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2007, 12:26:09 AM »
Talk about spending......you should see the federal highway money put into Texas.

No doubt 2 Bush's helped that.

Offline |BUG| Drago

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Re: President Bush
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2007, 04:37:20 PM »
Its obscene.

I don't use the word obscene often, being a large fan of pornography myself...

This two party crap has destroyed our political system.
This power of the military/industrial complex has usurped the rights of rule the citizenship was originally granted by our constitutional authority.

because nobody has really answered seven's original question, "what did libby do?", which i believe is an important one to keep in mind.

There was once upon a time a US Ambassador who while Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld and the entire US puppet media was advertising and selling the war to invade Iraq, who stood up and actually investigated some of the crap they were all spouting as known truth.
For example, the aluminum tubes bullshit that the White house put forward that evidence Iraq was working on Nukes, he actually went to the Los Alamos Labs nuclear experts and asked them about it. they told him that it was obviously the wrong kind of tubing for nuclear research and development. they were not listened to at the white house despite being the worlds formost experts at nuclear technology, they did not give the popular answer.

next he researched the supposed Link between Iraq and Bin Laden/al Quaida. the entire US case to link these things was one intercepted message that Italian intelligence had BOUGHT from a freelance investigator. It purported that a couple of al quaida operatives had a meeting with a Saddam hussein's representatives, in if I recall some third neutral country.

Problem with this link is that it was pretty obviously fake intelligence. The French investigated it further and found it was completely faked by the Italian Investigator and his girlfriend who worked for Italian intelligence for MONEY. The French intelligence service then reported this to the American CIA and British Intelligence.

the Italian Intelligence service was happy to just feel they were part of the game and happily passed on the "information" to the US and British governments, which instead of researching the faked intelligence themselves like the French had, they just called each other and asked if they had heard the same thing. since they both get the same Italian information, they agreed that, "o yes, we heard that too" and it was considered confirmed information....

when this US Ambassador who had so questioned the march to war heard about this link between Iraq and Al Quaida he questioned this flimsy, single testimony evidence, which by this time the French had dismissed as totally fabricated, and even the ITALIANS by now had investigated further and found to be completely made up by their paid investigator, and in fact TRIED TO ARREST HIM, but he had dissapeared already.

By the way, for the record. Bin Laden had personally ordered Saddam Hussein to be assassinated by Al Quaida as a top priority because Hussein killed all Al Quaida found to be operating/visiting/passing through Iraq. Killed on suspicion, without need of evidence. You see Iraq was not a Muslim Theocracy, the Religion was very dangerous to Hussein, who paid lip service to Allah, however was a near total ATHIEST who spent his life trying to kill Muslim Theocracies. (war with Iran, war with al quaida, kill on sight orders of militant islamist groups who demanded his overthrow or death)

All the idiots that link al Quaida/911 to Iraq better get their heads outta their ass and think about two groups that killed one another on sight and actively hunted one another to kill each other, WERE NO WAY HAPPILY WORKING TOGETHER!!!

anyway this US Ambassador found the Iraq/Al Quaida connection to be complete bullshit when investigated.

next the crap came out about Iraq trying to buy nuclear enrichment materials from several african nations, who do not have any nuclear technology themselves, by the way...
This same US Ambassador actually traveled to the areas mentioned on the US news reports and talked about by the White House as providing all this Nuclear support to Iraq. when he got there he found it all to be completely bullshit.

by this time several CIA agents who had also figured out that the White House was lying through its freaking teeth to start a war were starting to join with this Ambassador to make trouble on the evening news, and tell people the truth about all these white house lies.

What happened next was that a White House REPRESENTATIVE ON DIRECT ORDERS FROM ABOVE leaked to several prominent US newspapers that this US Ambassador could not be trusted because his wife was a US CIA SPY, what this had to do with him being untrustworthy is still unknown.

problem is his wife was a real life SPY for the CIA. and do you know what she was working on?

She was in charge of the division assigned to keep nuclear weapons from Iraq and other "unfriendly" nations. She was naturally a prime target for assassination or coercion by these same countries who might have liked to interfere with the CIA attempts to stop their nuke programs. DON"T YOU ALSO THINK THAT MAYBE SHE KNEW A FEW THINGS ABOUT OTHER COUNTRIES TRYING TO GET NUKES????

so why the white house thought revealing this US Ambassador's wife was an Undercover CIA spy in charge of nuclear proliferation would make him less believable about Nuclear Proliferation, who knows.

the reality is she had to leave her job fast before someone killed her now that she was publicly identified. the White House had likely expected her to have to run and hide and take her annoyingly right husband with her. Problem was she got pissed off and chose to press charges on the people who fingered her for the terrorists to kill her. You see in America it is a FEDERAL CRIME to EXPOSE an UNDERCOVER SPY. She promptly raised alot of hell about the whole situation and Congress and the Judicial branch themselves found this to be crossing a line.

During the investigations, Scooter Libby testified before Congress and in Criminal Court in outright lies. The rest that testified before Congress and in Criminal Court told the truth and revealed Libby was lying to the Court, that is a CRIME CALLED PERJURY.

The Court was so pissed off at his lying to them they arrested him and tried him for perjury. he was PROVEN GUILTY  and sentenced to about three years in prison and a quarter of a million dollar fine. luckily he is worth many millions of dollars so the fine was not even very painful. The main thing was that he lied to protect Vice President Cheney, Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld, and our dear friend, President? Shrub.

No shit the White House gave him a commutation of sentence.

No shit the White House he agreed to sacrifice himself for, to protect them from further investigation, will give him a total pardon once the common cattle citizens forget what really happened.

Look at all the Sheeple. God those evil bastards are right. Their is little stupider and less informed than the average American Sheep.

Which is probably for the best.
IF they were better informed and wiser, they would be seethingly PISSED OFF at what has been done to them.

and we cannot have that, can we.

Do Not Meddle in the Affairs of Dragons; For You Are Crunchy, and Good With Ketchup...